he. was. alone in welcome across town to talk about just how influential is the israeli lobby in the u.s. to what degree does it impact american foreign policy what about the rift that now divides us president barack obama and israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and who has the right to define red lines when it comes to iran. to cross israel's influence on washington i'm joined by ruthie bloom in new york she's a journalist and author of the recent book to hell in a hand-basket carter obama and the arab spring in washington we have grant smith he is director of the institute for research middle eastern policy and author of spy trade how israel's lobby undermines america's economy and in san jose we cross to

stephen's eunice he is a professor of politics and international studies at the university of san francisco all right folks cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want ruthie i'd like to go to you first a lot of people say that mr netanyahu has stepped over the line in meddling in american politics how do you respond about i think he hasn't stepped over any lines in meddling in american politics i think that what he's done is doing is trying to protect israel and what he's been saying to president obama is that the time is running out for stopping iran's nuclear program and so what he's saying is listen if you guys don't do it i have to do it ok grant would you like to reply to that. yeah that's that's not it benjamin netanyahu is the leader of a nuclear tipped country in the most volatile region on the planet we know from an f.b.i. report that was released in june that he's even had his own hands into nuclear

technology smuggling to beef up that arsenal what he's saying is obama you don't have time to keep on with these economic sanctions you've got a attack iran with your conventional weapons or else israel is going to use its on declared nuclear arsenal to incinerate its anime use its nuclear blackmail basically ok stephen jump in from san jose. oh it's not unusual and not improper necessarily for foreign leaders to raise concerns about the policies of other governments including allies but there's a widespread consensus even among some of israel strongest supporters and in congress and in the media and elsewhere that that's in yahoo does seem to be bringing in a degree of partisanship in support of romney and and in opposition to obama in this election year by by pushing a number of issues involving iran and other concerns ok ruthie what about that

because it really doesn't mean i'm going to jump ahead duty. i'm going to jump in here now to say that if what you think if you think that netanyahu is lobbying for romney that's pretty funny considering that the jewish vote in america is going predominantly to obama and netanyahu is an ally of the united states but obama doesn't treat him like one i don't think this is nuclear blackmail this is no joke at medinah dad has made it clear that he wants to wipe israel off the map and then take care of that as a racer who now that's a mistranslation. that's that's not true at all awkward in his yard is that he opposes this regime that's not allowing any sort of palestinian autonomy in the region and i do agree with ruth lee however that this is not just

partisan politics israel is used to reaching into its lobbying organizations in the united states and having a direct hand in moving resources and animating in agitating i mean this is been going on since ben-gurion first visited the united states couldn't get weapons and so he put together an arms smuggling network to get what he wanted and shipped it to palestine via rich zion this donors so i agree that netanyahu is definitely trying to have an impact on a broader section of american voters basically by using a baseless argument that israel is facing an existential threat which it's not israel is the nuclear head gemma in the hedge i'm on in the region ok stephen jumping go ahead. this is a line that obama's not treating israel's an ally. israel currently receive more than a quarter of all u.s.

foreign aid even though it's only one one thousandth of the world's population and that's a relatively affluent country obama has brought us aid. israel to its highest level in history despite cutbacks in domestic programs at home he has used this veto power in the un security council to veto a non-binding resolution simply reiterating the longstanding consensus international law based on the force of the. convention for previous u.n. security council resolutions and a landmark world court decision that that the colonization the settlements in the west bank are illegal i could go down the list but. to say that some of that that obama is not adequately supporting israel or that he is not treating his role as an ally is a gross distortion of obama's record you can agree or disagree with specifics but he has recommitted in self both in word and deed two is

a steadfast support to israel even under the current right wing government with which he shares some differences if you would you like to reply to me and i go let me know i want to be fair roofie go ahead. yes i would like to reply to that first of all since obama took office the first thing he did was to make it clear to the radical islamist world that he was going to do outreach with them including iran when the iranian people took to the streets in two thousand and nine after ahmadinejad stole the election obama abandoned them in favor of the mullahs and what he said was well you know i'm not going to interfere in your process and and i'm going to negotiate with anyone who wins that election a few months later a year later he did exact the exact opposite with all of the rest of the arab world when they took to the streets he abandoned american and israeli allies in favor of

radical islamists what he. really. seems already i know them they are not radical islam. these people want a democracy they want to. is a muslim brotherhood steven go ahead president even more leave. even when you were there lecturing about people have a right to elect their own leaders the difference between you and me and things i believe in freedom of the mocker see i believe people should be able to elect their own leaders or not enough governments like that that's why it's a i supported the revolution the aborted green revolution in iran that's why i supported the movements in tunisia and in egypt in yemen and in syria and elsewhere that we don't hear of their pro-u.s. or any of us they need to they need to be pushed aside and allow the people to choose. obama did not disappear the. last elections in iran

if united states did play a more active role it would play against it would hurt the movement which he very much supported the similar action is a basically real concern that. dollars yes ok but the. u.s. needs to prop up a dictator if it in any way will be better for israel and so by ruthie's prescription the united states should have found another shaw for around the united states should have created a clone of hosni mubarak the united states should have basically supported any dictatorship that lost the support of its people if it were better for israel and unfortunately you know you see the same sort of anti-democratic for and desire to support israel even in the united states i mean you should play that clip of where the democratic party delegates at their national convention are saying we

don't recognize israel's illegal annexation of east jerusalem we don't want that in our democratic party plank and yet they were steamrolled by people within the democratic party who simply passed that resolution anyway and so this is neoconservatives with the same type of mentality that they either surrender or the guy has are merely theirs and read behaved as they are no man you tasia fair time ruthie please jump in. they were not steamrolled by other members of the democratic party that fiasco the democrat it were the bench and what. you want i reckon that you had its own island nation it was over saddam was a way the israel lobby works on gentlemen. please let her speak roofie obama orchestrated that fiasco they were not steamrolled by other members obama

gave the directive not to let that pass because he was afraid that that might lose him and elect a general election that's first of all second rate of amazing. why should he be afraid of that because. the way to put that out of the america i need please i'm a lansing piece into the democratic party platform which you know basically destroys any u.s. credibility for it to go shedding any sort of settlement all rights horrible is very intense and very. interested in reasons i've already read to see some point what is the power of the lobby the israeli lobby party hollowing obvious great leagues go ahead i think the power of the lobby is greatly exaggerated frankly the united states supports dictatorships in the arab world the same reasons that supported dictatorships and and africa and asia and latin america elsewhere throughout history that because they believe that these dictatorships and they may

be more supportive of us or she is or can i can on the goals then then democracies is not put the blame on israel is grossly exaggerated certainly the blame on the israeli lobby you know israel's lobby back in the sixty's wanted to have israel armed with nuclear weapons and they steamrolled the sovereign can of the administration with people like abraham feinberg financing nuclear weapons development shapiro transferring material i mean this is all there's likely but are you saying that anything is more stick change or shift elsewhere in the world are you saying that's all israel lobby to i mean i got your shit israel's last release of rewordings even created my credit processes in the united states for example israeli trade minister dan how stole classified documents and they have to be here we're going to go to a short break folks

a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the israeli lobby in the u.s. state. you can. download the official. language stream quality and enjoy your favorite. t.v. is not required to watch all its hear all you need is your mobile device to watch our team any time of the. wealthy british.

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it's. a funny. story. well the measure crossed on time about two minds who were talking about israel's role in america's presidential politics. ok stephen let's go back to you in san jose what is the overlap of american foreign policy interest with israel's foreign policy interests. well the received thing is perceived overlap as the united states and israel both status quo powers. challenging both left wing and islamist movements in that part of the world the military industrial complex is of the two countries are closely intertwined israel

has and united states supported a certain governments in insurgencies and others as the cia have cooperated in intelligence gathering and covert operations if you go down the list but. you know i think that while certainly the pros are lobby and plays an important role i think the main factor is the perceived fluence of interest and i think the long term it actually hurts this is where i want to. be with you because if you heard there's a backlash by extremists ok i think the perception is that this is an ally ruthie what do you think about and also it's ok i think it's appalling that we should call the alliance between the united states and israel a perceived none of you has mentioned the share democracy shared values of freedom what about the palestinians those are the one of the powers american society would have on their homes i built on what about their democratic

right i'll tell you about the palestinians. the palestinians have made it clear again and again and have announced it that they can say they're all of israel to be settlements the palestinians has never been untrue that there was a slow american and israeli mission on israel within a status of a process ok grant jump in and clearly israel lobby within really dominates washington is a pack and it has a direct lineage back to the israeli ministry of foreign affairs or its founder worked and so this lobby has been competing with law enforcement agencies and the foreign agents registration act to keep from being actually considered part of the israeli government all of these trade agreements and military agreements were not really motivated by u.s. needs they were lobbying initiatives for memorandums of understanding and all sorts of military the iran contra scandal in fact in the war. room this where

a bunch of israeli arms dealers are trying to find out how they could get back into iran and then run the mossad torture camps and sell more arms back into iran so none of these were really that this is an israeli lobby and i this point in time is extremely dangerous and believe me the cia and f.b.i. worry more about counterintelligence against israeli mossad than they do cooperating with it and whether that's the recent israel aircraft industries work with stewart and those that or this client they think you major. because you're espionage ok steven. knight ninety percent of also so-called us military aid to israel goes back to american arms manufacturers it's a way of subsidizing the military industrial complex it doesn't help israelis in fact for every dollar the us know that it was i said was true there's

a lot of you know there's radiation there everywhere and so they want he's a great source and he's only have twenty to five. it are and so they get lots of spin offs so they managed to get lots of technology for their own industries and compete with the u.s. industry currently is under socialism leisure and there you see her in the well there's a real complex for you gentlemen you're talking. your talk and they don't want to pay for their ok rupie i'd like to go to you netanyahu says that iran's only months away from getting the bomb ok he said the same thing in one thousand nine hundred two. you know what it's not only the time you know that said the same thing in one game when he said it and this is what we're trying to discuss when he's telling americans this ok scaring americans so why should we believe him now excuse me john bolton john bolton is an american and he's been telling that to israel for years as well. it is no authority most at all is a pathological liar you. have nuclear program that was a lie. come on you can make ok if i want to get paid for get me ask you something

on both and we like you just go ahead ok i would like to jump into these cock a mamie concern here isn't familiar say about about as real to judith miller also saying that there is a nuclear weapons in iraq a gentleman let's let them i mean they're really nice beans i mean is it ok with a fair time fair time ruthie go ahead. and then tell me how is doing women has to do he is assessing the world situation based on and now not only on analysis but on what the muslim world says publishes and does have you not noticed there has been massive acts of terrorism committed against the united states even more so than against israel you're talking to me earlier when this really enjoying the stories really like about the. conspiracy it was may happen.

i said one is really a thing which i love america how do you notice that was terrorism when you marry him big and were setting off milk can bombs to drive the british out that was terrorism what's this spouse a nation with terrorism is a real person of the story and paul johnson is interesting they are going to go back to the 1940's it's interesting they are going back to the one nine hundred forty s. when menachem begin committed acts of terrorism quote unquote he first a warrant i was a very interesting ride i'm going to get out of anywhere he was the he was trying that's true he was trying to drive out the british and it is true he was using violent means but he was not using them as a way of murdering people and others who were not of the law and the sort of ordinary earlier. it was because of the terrorism the occupation the humiliation of palestinians and israel and a terrorist let me ask you who doesn't know anything about these real factors

behind terrorism well in the letter is totally disinterested i think he knows very much out of terrorism energy but energy the issue is you know that i'm sorry. to say we go ahead. you know. this actually is that occupation and oppression can never justify terrorism and terrorism can never justify occupation and repression and i don't like the fact that iran has supported extremist groups that have killed civilians i don't like the fact united states has sent aid to israel that's used those against civilians you know eight hundred civilians slaughtered in the cities are in gaza and nearly that many years earlier on lebanon i oppose terrorism by by any sides and none but you know whether it be a regular armed group or state sponsored or u.s. ally that killing civilians is wrong across the board and none can justify the other and i think what we really need to do is have

a consistent view on human rights where there's already too many arms the middle east the united states should stop supporting dictatorships we should stop just we should stop supporting the israeli occupation we need to have a consistent pro-human rights rights goal and i really think that the it's not the problem is not the israel lobby because again the support of the draw here is there is a real where it's not the double standard on iran the israel lobby really. has a lot i mean they're able to do with indian party stunts and you know ram now it's a much more sociality probably this is my biggest problem israel is its clandestine nuclear weapons program and it was the israel lobby that made a horrible policy of strategic ambiguity possible you know the israel lobby when nixon and kissinger were trying to shut down that nuclear program by denying jet fighters the israel lobby was going to work and they were trying to shut it down

there too early in the morning already in the morning and gentlemen i am pained here were resulting weapons and said to me at all when i don't really know he still black i want to go back to ruthie ruthie do you think that netanyahu alienates american jews. absolutely not i don't think. american jews i would like to say however that this so-called israel lobby that so pronounced is exactly that it's i'll put obama in the white house so you should be thrilled that the israel lobby the jews vote really never got two thousand and one and i mean i'm thinking marching orders from tel aviv in zero eight. and i want to get them registered as for age and so that we can have a better policy for the middle east a pact those horrible work in terms of transferring unwarranted amounts of aid and weapons to israel and it's completely anti-democratic again what they can't win the

bill such as the trade bill they steal information from their opponents and use it against them it's one of the most anti-democratic and dangerous forces in america and it has to actually have their way around it's actually the other way around if anybody you are and washington it's a pac if anybody has had now a. parentless lead dangerous organizations been investigated by the f.b.i. back when morris amitie was working there he still has missile secrets to florida jordanian missile deal that almost drove them into the arms of the soviets i mean this organisation has been warding advice and consent governments ever since its founder left the israeli ministry of foreign affairs in one thousand fifty one ok steve i don't know how you can say it even and i want to go back to netanyahu risk a real rift with the united states of iran. you know he has alienated a lot of some of the strongest supporters as i mentioned earlier jews the court of

public opinion polls are much closer to obama's position than they are to netanyahu is position not just views of iran's are these are the the palestinians as well. pack is is not representative of the jewish community not even represent of the americans i insist is that it's on the us on the right wing of american jews in fact the more netanyahu is criticized obama the higher obama's ratings have been in terms of american jews over seventy percent of american jews who find a vote plan to vote for obama and so i mean i think it just shows how isolated a pack is and not just in terms of us follow politics overall but about even among the american jewish community including those who are broadly supportive of israel all right. hours i want to thank my guests today in new york

washington and in san jose and thanks to our viewers for watching us to see you next time remember crosstalk. well the. only technology innovation all the developments around russia we've got the future covered. me it is eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat. eat.

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